Lots of " Are you hiring ? " calls

I've also wondered whether the whole storm chasing industry wouldn't fall under the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act).

It was created to fight the mob, but look at how well it fits for the storm business(From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICO the bold highlights are mine:

Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and/or sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity." RICO also permits a private individual harmed by the actions of such an enterprise to file a civil suit; if successful, the individual can collect treble damages.

When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, he or she has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond. This provision was placed in the law because the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations often absconded with the assets. An injunction and/or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.

In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court, as it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.[2]

There is also a provision for private parties to sue. A "person damaged in his business or property" can sue one or more "racketeers." The plaintiff must prove the existence of a "criminal enterprise." The defendant(s) are not the enterprise; in other words, the defendant(s) and the enterprise are not one and the same. There must be one of four specified relationships between the defendant(s) and the enterprise. A civil RICO action, like many lawsuits based on federal law, can be filed in state or federal court. [1]

Both the federal and civil components allow for the recovery of treble damages (damages in triple the amount of actual/compensatory damages).

Although its primary intent was to deal with organized crime, Blakey said that Congress never intended it to merely apply to the Mob. He once told Time, "We don't want one set of rules for people whose collars are blue or whose names end in vowels, and another set for those whose collars are white and have Ivy League diplomas."

This thing may have legs.

Here's a more in depth link if you got a lot of time:

http://www.ricoact.com/ricoact/nutshell.asp#defendant>>>

Triage Management Services Inc seems to be more than a middleman, they are a layer between the middleman and the carrier. It appears they charge way too much for how little they do or put another way they add way too much to the cost of a claim without providing value.

At the very least they are creating liability for the insurance company and themselves. Looking at the way they operate also puts into question the relationship they have to their contractors. Too much training and direction. The IRS would probably consider them employees. When somebody gets hurt or doesn't pay theirs taxes, a frequent occurrence in our business, the light is gonna shine pretty bright on these guys.

What happens when the supply house liens a couple of hundred houses because one of their contractors doesn't pay their material bill, which happens a lot with storm chasers especially ones that are making less than before? Well my guess is Triage has crated a liability trail right up to the front door of the insurance companies' skyscrapers.

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Minn I will check into the triage business it very interesting . I may have heard about them in a passing conversation. I know nothing about them As far as middle men go I work for one directly .>>>

Or maybe as Policyholders we should look into this. It is our premiums (i.e. RATE) that are funding this madness (+ what the gooberm$nt kicks in--- whoops that is supposedly ours too)

But if we do, wait until I call 1-800 free-roofs. My old Globeees are looking a little shabby. :dry:>>>

Middleman? EXACTLY what I thought when I went to their website and read their spiel.

Too weird. Why are we roofers taking it in the azzes again? We got illegals and middlemen coming out the wazoo now for one reason: We've allowed it. I don't see where joining the enemy is the answer MN, unless you want out of the roofing biz and into the Ins. Biz.

Maybe we should all quit MRCA, BBB, NRCA, NFIB for ONE year and pool a portion of that money towards a lawyer to research some legal action. It won't get better until someone pushes back. >>>

How easy is it to sell a job when it doesn't cost anything - Yea MR homeowner i have 10,000.00 pre approved just for you in my pocket what color do you want - Ah them other guys are just going to have to go through us anyway they may not be able to do all we can do safer just to goet it from us.>>>

I did call them was interested in working with them until i heard how they pay - They are just another middleman that somehow got hooked up with a big insurance carrier. What i would like to know is how they did it so i can do it. Evertime i try i get the answer it is against our policy then i tell them about companies like triage and they say oh they must have been reffered to us - then by whom they say adjusters or independant agents - So i ask the adjusters like CIAK and They say cant do it - I ask agents and they can refer to their customers only and if you do not regularly line their pockets that ends as well but no way at all to get leads same time adjusters get them directly from source.>>>

That's really phucked upMinnesota.

Can anyone say Anti-trust? I'd re-join NRCA if they could, or would.

Or maybe I should just join Triage, 'cause maybe they could learn me how to sell and roof.>>>

Ciak - www.triagenetwork.com These were one of the companies i found out about last year I had a previous customer of mine sign with one of their contractors - I know all about this deal i called them i believe Farmers Ins group uses them. Customers names come from the insurance carrier all the paperwork the customer gets from the contractor has the carriers names on them as well. The carrier(Farmers) in case i lost you - Backs triage 5 years and what ever contractors they choose to hire - At the time last year Triage was only in business 6 Months or less as well as the contractors they had in the area.

1 of the questions above i asked briefly how is this allowed _ how does a company less than 6 Months old get in with Farmers and how does Farmers get away with allowing Contractors in business less than 6 Months use The Farmers logo name and on top of all they back them and what ever subs they hire 5 years? Also called first choice.

I also found out when a is initiated by the homeowner it is not only sent to one of you adjusters it is as well sent to Triage from there the adjuster and contractor work together on the claim the homeowner is not told he/ she has to use this contractor but it is implied that the homeowner has no choice this is how it is done.

How pay works is Triage pays the contractor a little better than sub rates Like labor 30 per sq tear off 30 per sq shingle 10 per sq clean up - then reimberse any material permit extra expense from the contractor on a 30 day type of deal the contractor must submit all invoices to Triage once the job is complete. After that Triage uses Exatamate to bill insurance carrier adds in O&P and carrier pays it even a 1 trade type of deal.

There are as well other pricing issues where triage gets 10% of actual claim that is if the contractor is knowledgeable with Exactimate and works this out before taking on the job. But will not give up any of the 10 and 10 even if it is more than 1 trade.

The reason i decided to drop a name is because they are looking for contractors on this forum now. They are also called First Choice.

So how is it that you say it is not a good idea for you to recomend a contractor because it will make the carrier look bad if something goes wrong yet the carrier can --- and on top of it back a newbee 6 months in for 5 years? And all the flunky subs they hire over the internet to do the work.

I have the contract for the roofing work from the contractor somewhere around here with the Farmers (i Believe) logo on it - And 5 year written warranty with an authorized Farmers signature.

I say Farmers Not Positive it is them -- but i do know it is one of the bigger carriers. If i could find the paper work.

I was pretty PO'd About these guys they almost took a job that i had already signed up my Grandfathers Neighbor they called me as soon as the adjuster and contractor left and said his Insurance Company were taking care of the repairs and he did not need to use me. I did however loose about a half a dozen more in the area i had signed to do. The homeowners all told me the same thing their Insurance company was taking care of the repairs. I could have taken them all to court since i had contracts but to what extent? I would have lost more jobs They were telling homeowners in a case like this its hard to choose a contractor when so many are knocking at your door and us guys that have been in business for years were selling our licenses to everyone and they would'nt know until the job was done wheather they made the right choice or not - But this way The insurance carrier takes that risk for you and backs them 5 years - I did not see one local crew on any of there jobs One guy nice truck taking pictures that was it.>>>

I did it from memory . I just tried to sound it out I forgot it was two words and the egoo. Jed thanks for keeping my spelling bee up to date

"psylo shyegoo" means:

"Gooey, sly shop." or "Oops! Shyly. Ego."

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:>>>

psyloshy..............I laughed 'till I cried but was'nt gonna come out of my hole on that one.... :laugh:>>>

Chucky.......stop the insults, it only defines who (and what) you really are. I don't insult you personally although I could because you've given more than enough proof here of what (and who) you are. As long as you remain an insurance lap dog you'll get no sympathy (or empathy) from me or the majority of others here. Just give straight answers when asked and if you're not asked, don't post, simple as that. BTW, learn the phuck to SPELL, would 'ya? WTF is "psyloshy"?......a drunk moment in mind only? :P :P

JET>>>

minnesotaroofin Said: Ciak, Do you ever have to hunt down work or do you just sit around and wait for someone to call you?

How would you feel if you had to go do adjustments on say 5 properties then submit them then wait to see if you will get paid for your time. Then say you get paid for 2 of them. Then you get those adjustments and someone comes along and says man I could give you a way better deal and knock 500 off the top for your deductible so then you have to tell your company hey I cannot do that cause it is illegal they say everyone else does it.

Not to mention the 5 properties if door knocking you have to hit at least 20 or better to get 1 good lead then multiply that by 5 = 100 properties to get 5 good leads.

Or we can pay $3500.00 per month for an ad in the pages 1 book out of 3 locals -- then we could run in the papers another $2000.00 a month -- Peddlers licenses -- Phone bills -- Internet etc... I have no problem marketing this way but it is hard when the chasers don't pay any of the above bills or just enough until the storm is gone they are too - I have done it all Best chance is referral work that is why I ask you who better to ask after all the experience you have I am still waiting for some advice other than get off my butt.

Any type of insight would be appreciated. What is it you adjusters find in common with the chasers? Can I follow adjusters around? Can I ask them I will for free help you set ladders measure etc..? Which companies are willing to work with local contractors or preferred? How do I get in some of these contractors have only had a license 6months and they are in. Think it would be a good idea to get an adjusters license myself? If I did would insurance companies or adjusters recognize this and accept my diagram, Pictures,Estimate on the spot? If so I know 1 or 2 that will so which companies are easier? Is it illegal for independent agent to refer their customers to a contractor? And again drop some names on me or send me an email.

Some of the things that are ireful are door knocking - yellow page ads - paper ads - Internet etc I do enough of this already -

As it is now I don't hunt down work. When I'm out on a storm or another event typically I will get a call asking if I'm available to work etc. My common response is " I'm not available at the moment . However if you can wait I should be able to get to your project ....... Can you wait? The usual response Yes I will wait . Please call when you have a good idea when you can start. So it goes. If you get the homeowner to sign a contract and it is close to without supplements to the adjusters . It is just a matter of getting the job done. One thing to remember when dealing with the insurance company they are not the enemy . Be firm but courteous on the out come. It might be a good idea to become familiar with the estimating programs the adjusters use. The idea that the adjuster is the end all is wrong. The homeowner is the end . Get to the customer . Don't be intimidated by Idiots like jet he is so angry he cant think straight. Think and reflect on the great issue that is before us . A psyloshy of life . It clears the mind . I don't know what else to do right now too much at once ,>>>

MN.......here's how it "works" in the storm chaser trade. First there is a storm, all the insurance carriers who service that storm area either send their own adjusters (salaried people) OR they sub the adjuster duties out to independent companies. You'll see many motorhomes, Red Cross tents, etc. at various "central" storm sites. Since there is limited phone service, etc. for some time many people will go directly to the insurance company's motorhomes to get claim forms and sign up for service. Many times the insurance carrier will simply tell the claimant to "get three good estimates" and send it to their central headquarters. This is just another way to run the claimant around and buy time for the carrier. There is no guarantee that any of these three estimates will be considered as an adjuster will have the final say as to how much money will be paid, if any at all.

The roofers who chase storms for a living have a short list of adjusters they "work" with ;) ;)usually by locations. The adjuster has all the power in this deal, the ball is in their court as to the amount that will be paid. The claimant has no power whatsoever, sometimes they get more than necessary but many times they get less. It's not unusual for their coverage to be cancelled after the claim is paid. We've had customers who were with a certain carrier for over 25 years with NO prior claims. One storm claim and they were dropped. This will scare a lot of homeowners into not filing a claim at all if they're in a storm prone area such as coastal Florida, etc.

Bottom line is that it's a game and not a very "fun" game as people's lives are shook up beyond their capacity to handle it many times. I feel very sorry for anyone who has to experience this type of loss. Just look at what happened to the people in Katrina's path. The insurance carriers refused to pay storm claims saying it was "flooding" that caused the loss and the customer didn't have "flood coverage". What a license to steal. These poor people are still paying mortgages on homes that aren't even there any more :blink: :blink: The insurance company is not your friend, believe me, and you can tell by my posts on this subject that I hold anyone involved in it with the upmost contempt.

JET>>>

Ciak, Do you ever have to hunt down work or do you just sit around and wait for someone to call you?

How would you feel if you had to go do adjustments on say 5 properties then submit them then wait to see if you will get paid for your time. then say you get paid for 2 of them. Then you get those adjustments and someone comes along and says man i could give you a way better deal and knock 500 off the top for your deductable so then you have to tell your company hey i cannot do that cause it is illegal they say everyone else does it.

Not to mention the 5 properties if door knocking you have to hit at least 20 or better to get 1 good lead then multiply that by 5 = 100 properties to get 5 good leads.

Or we can pay $3500.00 per month for an ad in the pages 1 book out of 3 locals -- then we could run in the papers another $2000.00 a month -- Peddlers licenses -- Phone bills -- Internet etc... I have no problem marketing this way but it is hard when the chasers dont pay any of the above bills oor just enough until the storm is gone they are too - I have done it all Best chance is refferral work that is why i ask you who better to ask after all the experience you have i am still waiting for some advice other than get off my butt.

As you can see even me being here typing is considered working i may be sitting on my butt but i am triing to gain some insight from you which i figure to give up about 2-4 hours of my time i do not get paid for before i have to call it a loss.

Any type of insight would be appreciated. What is it you adjusters find in common with the chasers? Can i follow adjusters around? Can i ask them i will for free help you set ladders measure etc..? Which companies are willing to work with local contractors or preferred? how do i get in some of these contractors have only had a license 6months and they are in. Think it would be a good idea to get an adjusters license myself? If i did would insurance companies or adjusters recognize this and accept my diagram, Pictures,Estimate on the spot? If so i know 1 or 2 that will so which companies are easier? Is it illegal for independant agent to refer their customers to a contractor? And again drop some names on me or send me an email.

Some of the things that are irrevelant are door knocking - yellow page ads - paper ads - internet etc i do enough of this already -

>>>