Ice and Water Shield.......Miracle Stuff!..... and here's the Proof!

Tom, I owe you an apology. To a very large degree I share your values and your sentiments so it really does dishonor me and do you a disservice in the bargain to snipe as I did.

I was tired from a similar job of my own yesterday. I've been through so many forensic incidents the only way I can control my emotions is to turn it into a spiritual exercise. After the discovery is done, the system has to be put back together again and that involves respect more than vindication. Unlike the old days of my passionate youth, nothing gets ripped and nothing gets scattered. I can no longer work on a site where people are slinging scraps and hacking at things. No matter how bad things are, it's not the shingles' fault. At this point in my life, it starts and ends with care.

Even posting, despite this latest slip. I wasn't there so it was presumptuous of me to criticize so quickly.

I know not everyone likes the extended warranties BUT when a homeowner askes me about the "lifetime" shingle package warranty, I refer to it as the "10 Year Lifetime Roof".

Or if they ask how long is the lifetime warranty good for I'll tell them "10 years"

But then 8 roofing experts show up and tell the homeowner I am wrong and that they will be buying a "Lifetime Roof" :laugh:

Oh well I may not have much work, But I got a little bit of self respect :S

Twill will you ship and handle free??? I might be interested if it will fit in the budget. Lots of good info out there. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

:laugh: Twill :laugh:

I learned something from Ciak's link. SBS base is porous and not really reccomended, though I see lots of posts elsewhere that roofers say it's all they use in valleys, etc. The rest is nothing new. I didn't knwo all the ASTM #'s etc., but the facts about drwabacks, etc, stated for each is well known amongst us oldtimers.

It's still a moot point. Some of us here are installing roofs that will outlast any underlay sold today or even yesteryear.

That page also stated what we also know. That the felts and shingles BOTH are of such lessor grades that they used to be that the underlay is becoming more important. It's the only thing between the house and the weather after 10-15 years. Many roofers are getting accustomed to the new lifetime roofs needing replacement in less than 20 years.

Thanks for the heads up guys! I'll sure tell Rodney to handle that rotted OSB w/ care and don't forget to re-use them beater shingles! :laugh:

I am thinking of selling that "slightly used, in good condition, low mileage OSB"

And the shingles? "Altho they've been wet underneath for a few years and only have a few misplaced nail holes on each shingle, for today and today only, we're cutting great deals on the BLACK ones only. Un packaged to save on costs, we are wheeling and dealing! So c'mon down! Don't let that shyster homeowner with the brand new ones in his garage try to scam, the best deal is HERE! C'mon down"

Sign me up for an Ad Miss Vickie :laugh:

As a "Special Bonus" ......the I&W is free! While supplies last!"

Thanks for clearing that up for me egg, the pic was clear as a bell to me. Poor procedure from both parities current and past IMO. I may have missed the point. Quality workmanship is the key. S Some interesting literature about steep slope underlayments, http://docserver.nrca.net/technical/4460.pdf B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

The fact that underlayments have become so relied upon/specified with gov't agencies/manufactures reveals the level intoxocation they've become via the kool-aide, (so-to-speak).

For centuries steep roofs continue to performed w/o underlayments, (especially I&W), accros the pond and everywhere else in the world!

Yes, a contrtactor can & will be scre'd, blued & tattoo'd for not following the herd/"regulations".....But that doesn't make it right....

thanks egg........

In my region the offending detail in this example goes by the name of "the undershot," and as pointed out, the material needs to pass through (under) the heel cut of the barge rafter or fascia board. Otherwise, the entire fascia termination is functioning as a chase and would require a saddle/apron flashing and counter flashing (the cladding Twill mentioned...plus a flanking portion counterflashed by the soffit and a fabricated piece the valley and rake could drop onto.) It's wearisome to see applications that leave one or more edges open and untended.

But then, again, since we are essentially griping about workmanship, I have to say I don't care much for the gnarly prep on the repair effort.

That line of reasoning is so foreign to me. I have owned a roofing company for 30+ years in Florida.My crews were not allowed to roof poorly. Underlayments are a huge part of the FBC. Many pages of code and systems require the correct type.The Manufactures require you use it in their literature and applications. It is an integral part of roofing system. Florida requires underlayments it is the law here. You would be sued screwed and tattooed if you tried to apply roofing products with out underlayments. Be labeled a shyster and crook. May even find yourself on the nightly news for cheating and stealing money from customers. Don't come to Florida and try that crap. Sorry. I don't buy it. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

More clarification Chuck. The post wasn't to blame the I&W itself. But, it has bred a generation of oafs who think they can roof. They know they can't actually roof, but they think they know that I&W will coverup their mistakes. It will even coverup long enough that when the HO calls about the leak, they can say with a straight face, "Sorry, but the roof is out of warranty."

Once the roof leaks, even grace will allow the water into the structure. This post is a prime example of their 'work'. I bet Twill, a few others here, or I could have roofed that with NO underlay at all and it wouldn't have leaked.

While subbing from a larger company, I was in the office watching the owner give each of his crews a large list of jobs to do in the rain. He said they were ALL callbacks, then asked about the 30 sq. job we had started. When I said it under felt only he nearly croaked, then said I felt better than his 12 crews could roof.

But please remember, the newest buzzword in roofing is underlay! It's more important than the roof!

CIAK Said: The very first issue here is the OSB. The major disadvantage of OSB is that if it gets exposed to significant amounts of water the edges expand by up to 15%. . .especially if they are cut edges. This swell will then telegraph onto the shingles. When plywood gets wet, it expands evenly throughout the panel, dries more quickly and shrinks down to its original size more rapidly than OSB. The expansion of the decking well cause the Ice and Water to separate. Then the roofing application .... questionable from the pics. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

To clarify my response. It was the shingle application. My statement about the OSB is also correct. The Ice and Water was installed correctly. The Ice and Water had nothing to do with the problem. Interesting hmmmmm. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Thanks for that! I thought I was losing 'it'!

Sorry......you are so right! That was the source of the leak.

No flashing...or they did not slide the shingle underneath the rake board

twill59 Said: The top of that shingle got ripped off when he tore this area off.