How many union workers or employers on this forum?

Vickie has talked on her blog about where we will get the new workers. Tom has asked why the difference in wages on Davis bacon jobs and 'regular" work.

At least in the skilled trades, if we had union workers a lot of these questions would be moot. We spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS every year training the next generation of workers, all races and both genders! Safety is a large part of our training, as is quality. I know that there are a lot of scumbags out there in all the trades, but in the union, the best get hired first and if you are a scumbag so to speak, you sit.

Is the union the answer? I don't know for everyone else, but it sure works for us. I WANT everyone that is working with me to be trained and motivated and paid the same as I would expect to be paid. JMHO

The unions were a direct result of abuse on the part of the owners. It has swung in both diretions for sure.

Those guys won't be in business very much longer.

Truth is, without unions it'd be worse for the workers. Some union activity has hurt their cause...immensely.

The unions really don't have the moral high ground like they think. Government should not be the only unionized workplace. I don't think they should be at all. Many union people seem to agree BTW

******************************************************* I met up w/ a Union Concrete guy on Saturday. He had his own residential business before the bust. And his card before that. I've known him for years. He's faced many of the same problems we all have.

Anyway.......Craig is trying to get some prices for a roofing project. What do a couple of the "Business" owning roofers tell him when he asks them for a price?

Are you ready for this one?

Now we all know that you Can't Fix Stupid.......

Are you ready?

Again the question to a supposed Business Owner is: How much to replace this roof?

The answer, from more than one supposed business owner is.......... (Are you ready?)........

"HOW MUCH ARE YOU PAYING?" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

In his first incarnation at Apple, Steve Jobs was adamant about having American workers working in a spotless factory that he could show off to his father on Sunday afternoons. He was rewarded by having a niche computor company.

In his second try at Apple, he subs production out to Foxxcon in China and seems to be the dominate player in every market it goes after. So I don't know what lessons you can draw from how Apple treats lower level employees.

One of the largest, most profitable companies in the world doesn't want a union :dry:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/business/apple-store-workers-loyal-but-short-on-pay.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&hp

OS....The problem is...You can can offer the world, however if there's no viable labor pool to take you up on the offer, or the bennies are of no interest, it's mute....That's the situation we have in this region.

Years ago, when I attempted to explore the possibility of union affiliation, my thoughts were to attract more desirable people....They're just not there, sadly.

And now, honestly, as I recall, I believe, at the time, we were offering more benifits than the union did. So, it didn't go anywhere.

In any event; Compensation, be it base pay &/or implied "bennies" have had no substantial effect on performance &/or attracting any significantly more qualified applicants. Sometimes, the opposite.

I attribute the current state of affairs to our clown of a gov't.....Through non-enforcement of labor laws and complacency of civil servants, we have created this mess. The only true way out is to untangle it. Get out completely or sober-up, dive-in and truly enforce.

I am a third generation union carpenter. It is definetly abused by some. Too bad too, because it is such a good thing. There has been abuse on both sides for a loooong time.

IF all of the employers were like Mike Hicks, there probably would not be the problems. Years ago in Kalamazoo, the Upjohn company was similiar. It was the place to work in Kalamazoo, and once you got in, you were pretty much guaranteed a job for life and they took care of their people. No union was ever even contemplated there. They have since been bought out by Phfizer, and it has changed a lot.

I once belonged to the carpenters union and I was once signatory with their master agreement as an employer. Neither experience was satisfying in the slightest which I found sad since my family background was strong pro-union for three generations before me. I'm still conflicted to this day about it.

Carpenters union. I have been in three different ones. I work out of local 525 in Kalamazoo now.

Local 11 Chicago!

Yeah Shaggy!

Union!

I spent time in the union. I learned a lot but the underlying attitude of the union officials always bugged me. In their opinion we were working for them, not whatever company we happened to be employed by, and I could never see it that way.

As to wages, it is the employers who are the problem. This should (and could) be a well payed profession. If we owners would learn to charge enough to be able to afford the costs. But there are too few contractors that want to sell on anything but low price and the only way to do that is cheap labor. It's the easiest way but it sure doesn't help the industry or helpp us in attracting future roofers. Sad.

Roofguy, I am not arguing with you on that, but with the right union craftsman with the right skills and the right attitude, you would be estatic! I guarantee you that if you hired myself and my crew to do ANY work for you, it would be perfect, the job would be done safely and you would make money. It is the people and not the rules or money that make a difference. There are plenty of scumbags out there and a lot of them are union and a lot more of them are nonunion.

FYI, union rates vary widely all across the country. They are one factor used to determine the prevailing wage.

Roofguy, I am not arguing with you on that, but with the right union craftsman with the right skills and the right attitude, you would be estatic! I guarantee you that if you hired myself and my crew to do ANY work for you, it would be perfect, the job would be done safely and you would make money. It is the people and not the rules or money that make a difference. There are plenty of scumbags out there and a lot of them are union and a lot more of them are nonunion.

FYI, union rates vary widely all across the country. They are one factor used to determine the prevailing wage.