Hand Nailing Shingles

JED.....It started out @ $30 a sq, they never bid a hand nail job.....it was not worth it though. I am humble enough to tip my hat to all of you "hand bangers" out there. It is hard work for a "non-HB", lets just say that I am retireing my hatchet and going bqack to my claw hammer!>>>

Arrrr, ahoy ther cuz , well shiver me monays ther, an all this time ole Jack be athinkin he was a loner ther he did for shuuuuure.>>>

Ottawa -

I'm still around - and we still have nail strippers. Just sold one to Canada last week.

Everyone needs a stripper or two for those days when only hand nailing will do.

www.nailstripper.com

Give me a shout. http://www.nailstripper.com

Jack>>>

Help. There was somebody on RCS, a few years ago selling this trough that hung around your neck, and it would spit out a row of nails between your two fingers, that was pretty slick i missed placed mine some time ago but it really did improve my speed i'm no slouch when it comes to hand nailing, look at the time you spend setting up your compressor, hoses, oiling them then at the end of the day put everything away ok so how much time do your really save? :blush:>>>

We used to send the new guy home with a pouch of nails to practice,Would tell `em just flip it into position and drop it into the bag ,till you don`t need to think about what you`re doing,feel for the head of the nail,and flip it into position between your fingers--Heck,Today if the compressor goes down,things get really sloww,,,,,>>>

I wonder how many roofers today have the skill of 'rotating nails', that is using your feeder hand to get another nail ready while driving down the previous nail. This skill used to make the difference between whether a roofer made money or was just wasting time.>>>

I consider the EG nails 'felt nails'. If you're nailing at 5 1/2" up, the nails get wet every time it rains. EG are gone in 8 years. And it's a bear trying to rid the deck of all those nail nubs.>>>

Robby, where is that job located? Currently we pay $55 a sq for that type of install, less deductions.>>>

Hey Willie,you misread my friend,I was quoting Robby-the last line was mine,saying pretty much what you did,I`ve had plenty of 25 sq. days handnailing,without a tosser(whatever),if there`s 3 guys on a job .I put guns in their hands---No one here does it with a tosser/feeder either-never busted a finger either,but have had bloody hands from doing shake installs with a square head estwing hammer>>>

Yeah, Old School when im hand nailing on a roof theres always a guy that trys to feed me shingles. He just ends up slowing me down and breaking my rythm. lol Like you say a waste of time. If two men are doing the work with a gun then you have to double the one hand nailers output to compare. Or of course you could cut the two gun nailers output in half if you wanna get technical! lol TRG I've heard that crap about it being easier/faster to nail high when hand nailing but it simply is not true. I have no problem sticking my nails right dead on the line baby! The first time, every time. You can't be skeered your gonna bust a finger. Just do it! lol PS After busting a few fingers over the years its amazing how the mind and hands learn to work together in rythm! lol>>>

Handnail.....I have seen hand nailers go real fast, but when I looked closely, they were installing the nails too hihigh above the nail line. This allows the roofer to tap and bang. By going through the thicker (nail line) it would slow them down....end result....bad install -Robby they may lack the arm,when I handnail it`s always tap/bang whether they`re 1 1/4" or 2 " roof nails,and always in the right place>>>

They cost twice as much, but you can get hdg coil nails. I'll never use zinc chromate again. Near the coast, ss only. They cost three times the hdg. which equals six times the zinc so-called "eg" nails. I held out against guns for nearly 20 years, all for the reasons mentioned. Was proud of it. I'm used to guns now. They're faster, no question about it, especially after you get old. In the hands of a hack, a coil nailer is a despicable tool of destruction. I will not, under any circumstances, allow guns to be used on recovers. Robby is right-on about the ergonomic problem with staples. That's why you almost always see old staple jobs having the staples driven at a 45. I personally don't like the gun action on anything less than an inch and a quarter nail. So hard to keep them from trying to tumble. I do hate the hoses. Never thought I would say this but you do get used to them.>>>

Willie; that about covers it. Back in the day, we used to hand nail everything. We would do a 30 square house in the morning and another in the afternoon. 3 or 4 men on the crew and allnailing. The problem with the guns is that you always seem to have one person running the gun and another laying out the shingles. Unless the gunner is nailing twice as fast as two men hand nailing, there is no advantage, just a wasted mans labor. MY Opinion!>>>

1) Does it make for a better job? Yes! However if i roofed the entire house myself then it wouldn't matter! Its mainly about the skill and pride in his work of the guy doing the installing. Some guys don't hand nail worth a chit either! lol If im the only gun running off the compressor then i can set the pressure for exactly what it should be for the particual roof decking im installing on. However if several roofers are hooked to the same compressor then it can be more difficult to keep the pressure consistent. In addittion most roofers dont really give a crap about the pressure and never even adjust it for each job depending on the hardness of the wood, what kind of shingles are being installed etc... 2)In general, how much slower is hand nailing than using a gun? Again it depends on the roofer. Most roofers these days are pitiful at hand nailing. They were born with a gun! lol They would be terrible slower at it. For me personally on a straight run, i can avg 3 sq. an hour hand nailing or 4 with a gun. ( thats a walkable roof ) Then theres the time setting up equipment if using a gun and adjusting the pressure etc. and breaking it all back down. Not to mention that dayum hose in the way half the time. So when all is said and done for me theres not a lot of difference. But for many its like day and night. 3) Are their many/any S.O.B.'s hand nailing shingles? I don't see any sob's hand nailing except on repairs! 4) How difficult do you think it would be to sell the idea of paying more to have a roof installed with hand nails? I think it would be extremely difficult to say this amount for gun nailed or this higher amount if you want it hand nailed. What exactly would you be saying? Something like well i can slop it for you Mr. Homeowner for X amount or do you a really good hand nail job for X higher amount? However i do believe its a great sales tool to say we hand nail ALL our roofs! But you better have some reallly good hand nailers to back that up! 5) I've always had the impression that the when hand nailing, I got more control over the placement and depth the nails are driven. Additionally, hot dipped galvanized nails are more corrosion resistant than electroplated galvanized nails. If you could charge enough more for hand nailing to offset your reduction in speed, do you think hand nailing could be effectively sold as a superior installation? Isn't this the same question as #4? lol But i will point out two of the biggest advantages of hand nailing as far as quality is concerned. No one EVER drives the nails through the shingles as in IMBEDDED in the shingle with a hammer! lol When you hit a crack between two deck boards or two sheets of plywood you can feel it when hand nailing but you never know it with a gun. That is if you have enough pride in your work and don't mind slowing down long enough to pull those nails back out and relocate them. If you dont do this then they will back out and puncture a hole in the shingle later down the road eventually causing a leak!

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Speaking of hand nailing.....A roofing contractor that I work for on the side (NO CASH....ALL TAXED) has a 150 sq of 5/12 building to t/off and install. 60 sq is ready to shingle sat and sun, it will be my 1st hand nailing job in 10 years......$30 bucks a sq doesn't seem so bad, what do ya think?

To respond from up top....

Handnail.....I have seen hand nailers go real fast, but when I looked closely, they were installing the nails too hihigh above the nail line. This allows the roofer to tap and bang. By going through the thicker (nail line) it would slow them down....end result....bad install

Staples.....Holds better than any other fastner when installed right. There is an ergonomic problem in that you have to keep the gun parallel to the nail line.....This is where I see too many rainbows.

Coils.....The big problem here is the is overdriven nails....If you can master the air flow vs. driver depth through all types of weather (hot and cold) you can get a pretty good install each time out.>>>