Go make your own statue

I was going somewhere else with this Tim. But you did give a good answer

Roofguy Said:Is denying Education while arming ourselves to the teeth going to give us any freedom besides the physical kind while locking us into soulless ideologies? Who do we support in this world? Who do we fight?

If you dont have the physical kind of freedom, do the other kinds matter, much? Because if you think they do, then essentially arent you saying that the slaves were essentially free because the only freedom they lacked was the physical kind?

To have true freedom you first have to posses the power to have physical freedom. In the purely physical realm, I hear the pleadings of the unprepared attempting to make the case for their lack of focus. For whatever the reason they chose to prioritize their lives differently than me. Thats great, I thrive on different - if everyone were doing life the same as me, Id find another way to do life. I dont like crowds, I prefer the path least taken for myself.

All of that a response to denying education while arming ourselves to the teeth. It is the age-old argument made by people in my weird little sphere of life where we not only believe in making ourselves stronger to survive bad times, we enjoy it. Its a lifestyle, one we dig! And your education or arming argument is the same argument made by the You cant eat gold, so Ill stockpile food crowd. Or the I dont need to have food on hand, I have guns and ammo and Ill just take your food. It wrongly presupposes that those who are armed, are not also educated.

Patty Cakes Said: I just finish writing a chapter in reponse to you Twill and pushed the wrong button and lost it all, so Im on reruns.

Twill, I like what you said. Most are in the same mix of thinking. Racism is so inbread and more often than experience it is taught by word of mouth.

An example: I took the train from Harrisburg to Philadelphia last month to visit my brother. Unbeknownst to me there is a ticket language and I sat in someone elses seat. He returned from grabbing some snacks and approached saying Sir, you are in my seat No offense for the Sir, my hair is extremely short due to chemo. I offered to move and he said No, do you mind me sitting next to you. We spoke the whole 2 hour trip, I found it enjoyable and we shook hands at the end of our journey. I told friends of this encounter and they thought it was wonderful. After the nicities I mentioned he was Black and 65....nothing needed to be said, it was written all over their faces. I did this intentionally, for years now when I speak of simple interludes with people I never mention ethnicity because it doesnt matter, should not matter. I was raised by parents that saw a person, not a color or religion. Respect begets respect.

We are not required to be reckless and foolish with our lives and family in order to be labelled non-racist. When we were kids we learned life's biggest lessons from what went on around us. In junior high, long before anyone was even talking about racism in my small town, I learned that black kids were more likely - by far - to pick on white kids. I didn't know to be racist, me and my friends were just trying to survive each day in junior high, and we knew that to do that we should stay away from the black kids.

In the city I live in, 240,000 population: Blacks are 23% of the population, and commit 74% of the crime. According to state crime stats. We don't avoid the east side of town at night because we're racist, we avoid it because we have an instinct for survival that was shaped by life experiences and simple math.

White people do black people no favors when they pretend this isn't the case, and therefor condone decades of brainwashing by black leaders who tell young black people that the reason they have less is because white wants to keep them down. For the most part, whitey is just trying to survive and doesn't have time to work to keep black people suppressed.

Is denying Education while arming ourselves to the teeth going to give us any freedom besides the physical kind while locking us into soulless ideologies? Who do we support in this world? Who do we fight?

If you don't have "the physical kind" of freedom, do the other kinds matter, much? Because if you think they do, then essentially aren't you saying that the slaves were essentially free because the only freedom they lacked was the physical kind?

To have true freedom you first have to posses the power to have physical freedom. In the purely physical realm, I hear the pleadings of the unprepared attempting to make the case for their lack of focus. For whatever the reason they chose to prioritize their lives differently than me. That's great, I thrive on different - if everyone were doing life the same as me, I'd find another way to do life. I don't like crowds, I prefer the path least taken for myself.

All of that a response to "denying education while arming ourselves to the teeth." It is the age-old argument made by people in my weird little sphere of life where we not only believe in making ourselves stronger to survive bad times, we enjoy it. It's a lifestyle, one we dig! And your education or arming argument is the same argument made by the "You can't eat gold, so I'll stockpile food" crowd. Or the "I don't need to have food on hand, I have guns and ammo and I'll just take your food." It wrongly presupposes that those who are armed, are not also educated.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/08/15/when-white-supremacy-came-to-virginia/amp/

I just finish writing a chapter in reponse to you Twill and pushed the wrong button and lost it all, so I'm on reruns.

Twill, I like what you said. Most are in the same mix of thinking. Racism is so inbread and more often than experience it is taught by word of mouth.

An example: I took the train from Harrisburg to Philadelphia last month to visit my brother. Unbeknownst to me there is a ticket language and I sat in someone elses seat. He returned from grabbing some snacks and approached saying "Sir, you are in my seat" No offense for the Sir, my hair is extremely short due to chemo. I offered to move and he said " No, do you mind me sitting next to you". We spoke the whole 2 hour trip, I found it enjoyable and we shook hands at the end of our journey. I told friends of this encounter and they thought it was wonderful. After the nicities I mentioned he was Black and 6'5"....nothing needed to be said, it was written all over their faces. I did this intentionally, for years now when I speak of simple interludes with people I never mention ethnicity because it doesn't matter, should not matter. I was raised by parents that saw a person, not a color or religion. Respect begets respect.

Twill, I think you're a man of average intellect and I trust that if you work on it a little harder, you can make the connection. Go find your thinking cap; I'm typing on my iPad and not inclined to spoon feed it to you

Not even close Tim. I am way above average intellect. Not a brag. Its something I shied away from most of my life as I tried to fit in. Anyway, that's for another day.

Can I make the connection? Mr. Adams..I can make 100's, if not 1000's of connections. Which connection is most relevant? Which yields any kind of solution? Which is fail safe?..Provides protection for the weak and truly helpless, while getting the fat asses to move, the closed minds to think?

Which do you prefer? The connection that fits your logic? A connection that is locked into the past or one that predicts the future? One that fits a certain ideology? There's no shortage here. Tell me what you want, give me a couple of days, and I can outline an argument for you. Or against you. Or start a 3rd, 4th or 5th wave.

My mind is a blessing. My fault in this world, in it's present condition, is my sense of fairness. And my "thinking cap"? I rarely take it off

I can make the connection to the past. Waaaay past the statues and symbols. Into the history. The people. The players. The perps and the victims. Can you go there?

Slavery and the colonialism was much bigger than the USA. That is part of Mankinds history. All the way back to the ancients. Way beyond the USA history.... we were just pups. Still that's only part of the story. What's going on now? I read an article where someone made the connection between the modern flow of capital and colonialism. It's still a sick world, an ill prepared little planet for 7 billion people. Yet.....to look at 3rd world countries and see the buildings, infrastructure and utilities left behind by the Colonialists...some good did come out of that. Honest people will see both sides. But ...can and should I judge? My family was not subjucated. I personally did not directly prosper. I personally know of no suffering. Statues tell me nothing. Only the oral and written history.

I can connect to the future and the present as well. Are 3rd World Warlords, communists/ fascists and Piss Ant dictators any better? (We already have Socialism, so we need to quit throwing that word around) Why do we support and arm them? How'd the USA end up sleeping with the House of Saud? People are dying and suffering now. When does it get better? Or does it without turning our swords in plowshares?

Is denying Education while arming ourselves to the teeth going to give us any freedom besides the physical kind while locking us into soulless ideologies? Who do we support in this world? Who do we fight?

I see and hear fat, nasty, unhealthy diabolical people of all colors on all sides. And I hear the message of the good and the righteous also. From all sides. All colors.

One FACT that belies the debate: Grant owned slaves, Lee did not own slaves.

The problem with the confederate legacy is that it has been hijacked by terrorist organizations like KKK or the nazis.they do not defend the men you're talking about but the era when the whites could oppress the minorities at will.

Ok. Let's stop talking about politics for a moment.

Robert E. Lee. This man with this name was a titan in his day. Each side in this conflict of a hemorrhaging "United" States of America asked him to take charge of their armies. He established himself, as did U.S. Grant, during the Mexican war. Remember The Band singing "The night they drove ol' Dixie down?" That guy.

Gettysburg was a bad day for him because he was human and made a bad mistake. Anyone here ever made one of those? General Longstreet tried to get him to see reason and he wound up being called a traitor because of it.

Ask Pickett about Gettysburg. Well, he's dead so you can't ask.

Shelby Foote was someone I would call truly great. If you don't know him you owe it to yourself to learn more about him. He explained how as a native of Greenville, Mississippi he would have HAD to fight for the south and even though I disagree I HAVE to accord him the respect he deserves for his conviction. He did not believe in slavery or white supremacy. He was not a fascist. He was a gentleman and a scholar and a mench.

Robert E. Lee earned his statue.

Did you know that after the war when his fortunes were in serious disarray a life insurance company offered him 50,000 dollars in 1860 money to put his name on their advertising and he declined?

We get caught up in things and we have to make hard decisions. Sometimes they work out for the best. Sometimes they definitely don't.

Now let's talk politics. A large, ignorant, self-deluded man with little hands that wave around isn't going to work out. A revolving Cadillac gold door that spits out everyone but generals isn't going to work out well for me or the people I care for. The military loves Marshall law. I don't.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but at least I'm trying. I'm going to step up and take credit for that. Too many people. Too much stupid. I'm going to work tomorrow and I expect to do as good a job as I'm capable of. I think it will be a pretty good day, even for a Saturday.

Lol dont blame Trump for your lack of reading comprehension.

There are/were people on both sides of the BLM/Antifa movements, and that is what he was referring to.

The GOP senators , prominent businessmen, world leaders ,and just about every sane rational human being on the planet who are unanimously condemning trump for equating both sides, must have a "lack of reading comprehension" .I understand love is blind but you don't have to fall in love with him. he's the president not your daddy.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/16/trump-neo-nazi-comment-world-leaders-react-241703 http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/congress-reaction-trump-comments-paul-ryan/index.html

I totally understand the importance of any statue....that is why they are there. They are memorable characters that had an influence on the developement of this country. The United States of America is now in a toddler stage in comparision to Europe as an example, they have us beat by thousands of years. This is our history of growth, it will go through growing pains endlessly. I have no problem with the statues remaining where they are, I do have a problem with the flag. We are the United States with our ONE FLAG not two. Recognition of the Confederate flag will live on forever but should not be recognized as our flag.....it is not. I'm not American born but I'm dedicated to the country in which I live. I live close to Gettysburg and if you want to see both sides of the fence come visit. They have already announced they will remove NOTHING, nor should they, this was an historical battle, tribute given to both sides. My favorite story about the surrender of the Civil War was that the Union troops saluted Lee on his travel into the meeting to surrender, if they could do that, we can do better.

Alba Said: There were some fine people on both sides(one of which included the KKK and The Nazis)-said our dear leader and with that statement his moral authority is over.

Lol don't blame Trump for your lack of reading comprehension.

There are/were people on both sides of the BLM/Antifa movements, and that is what he was referring to.

There were some fine people on both sides(one of which included the KKK and The Nazis)-said our dear leader and with that statement his moral authority is over.

Twill, I think you're a man of average intellect and I trust that if you work on it a little harder, you can make the connection. Go find your thinking cap; I'm typing on my iPad and not inclined to spoon feed it to you.

Roofguy Said: The libbies do not grasp the whole Fee Speech concept. They think it only applies to them.

I and most AMERICANS are not even slightly swayed by the argument that this has anything at all to do with free speech.

Spare me the Lawyerly arguments Tim.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212669257220356&set=a.1564998478900.2083908.1053535785&type=3&theater