cedar shakes

I looked at a shake roof where the interlay felt is 3" lower than it should be, therefor you can see 3" of felt between the shakes. In your opinion, would this be the cause of roof leaks and be the sole reason to replace said roof?

just wearin a hat john, u know i aint NEVA gon cut me hair, NEVA! but really down here i get nothing but respect for my locks. there is a huge rasta presence and they understand the spiritual principals behind what they call roots. everywhere i go i'm treated like a celebrity. i just visited the US a couple weeks ago and was treated like a freak soon as my plane landed as usual. i would never go back to that awful, judgemental place. you can't deny vanity but men can dress like woman! wtf you shud be askin me about the great stuff foam coming out from the copper behind me. that's a hand rolled copper roof installed by an old school who's not around anymore that someone decided to fix with great stuff. love the NWO! new surprises everyday

Bdub, Is that a new picture or did you cut your hair?

I haven't seen a proper roof in a loooong time. That bein said, I haven't seen a poorly installed roof where the responsibility didn't boil down to the customer. Ignorance is a major handicap. There might be all these other ways but educating yourself is always the best and most independent way to protect oneself from all the deceptors in this world. All of the systems we create will never eliminate the deceptors but rather create bueracracies, inflate costs and compromise our freedom.

VERY well said Lanny.

---One more point...I have a dear friend who is a medical malpractice attorney. He eats expert witnesses for lunch. ---When he appears in court he knows MORE than all the expert witnesses combined. When he cross examines them he asks all the difficult questions, refers to studies full of contradictory research and on and on. He may cross examine a witness for several hours. The point is to muddle the experts with lots of contradictions and make them look much less than expert. ---I wouldn't dream of appearing in court knowing someone like that was going to challenge my every statement. Lanny

Max; Lanny summed it up..... The only "defect" you've decsribed,is the expose felt....Which, most-definitely is an issue. Most all else is simply opinion, and could quite possibly discredit your "expert" status. 1. Staples are acceptable means of fastening and perform just fine 2. neoprene jacks are acceptable 3. "Large: gaps may or may not be an issue. 4. "Reglet" could be arguable...IOn any event , a minor detail. 5. Nothing wrong w/standing seam roof installed properly.

---Having installed hundreds of cedar shake roofs mostly in the 70's & 80's I don't think what you have described is that serious. ---I am not sure what to make of the felt issue. I doubt it is that big a deal. ---100k for a new roof is some kind of number. We did a 50 sq cut up 8/12 for 40k 2 years ago and I would have done it for less but the contractor picked the number. ---I am guessing that the owner is in a panic thinking he has a bad roof. I run into this now and then. People know nothing about what is important and what is just cosmetic or nothing at all and they fly off the handle and think we should tear the house down because of some non essential detail like rubber pipe boots. ---Is this a heavy treated roof shake roof? Or is it just some medium non treated shakes? Non treated shakes may only last 15-20 years so why put 100 year boots on? Then again you can get 50 year heavy treated shakes and want lead pipe covers. ---When you go to court with such a flimsy list of defects the opposition will have 5 roofing experts that swear that the roof is just fine the way it is. I would never go to court with ambiguous, debatable issues. You want defects that 98% of roofers will agree with. Things that void the manuf. warranty. I mean real basic no-no's such as running 12 inch courses with 24 inch shakes. Or laying the shakes upside down or using 4x4 roof to wall for valley metal or using the correct valley metal but nailing right in the center or using 15 lb felt for chimney and skylight pan. I have seen/repaired all of these. ---When I go out on repairs I find some real roofing mistakes that are the cause of leaks. Is this roof leaking??? If not I cannot see a court case. If it is leaking...why? Can that be repaired? I saw a comp roof where they installed the comp upside down. That was not repairable... ---By the way, stapling shake roofs is standard where I live. And 95% of the shake roofs we tear off are stapled. That has nothing to do with performance. ---No reglet??? Well, cut one in. Sounds like a repair not a new roof. ---Standing seam on a 1/12 may be within the manuf. specs. I have seen plenty of those on whole houses. I am not a metal expert but those that are could speak on this issue. ---If you appear as an "expert witness" the opposition may make you look like a complete boob. You better get your info. straight.

Lanny

wywoody Said: My guess is that they felted it as they went and used the top 0f the shakes as the line for the top of the felt.

kage Said: The way your describing install...I would call it crap..i mean defective...

But the question is, did it really warrant replacement

The roof was leaking, but i suspect it was because of the low pitch metal roof, I see no reason for the shake roof leaking. Original roofer is not even in the picture. One of my questions was what the specs were for the upper roofs, nobody seems to know. The copper counter flashing was step, but just nailed and caulked.

Max, is/was it leaking? Staples /nails is a non issue unless they were contracted to use nails. Same with the pipe boots. It is better to leave a gap between the shakes intead of jamming them tight together. What did the contract call for on the upper roofs? did they have a termination bar on the wall for a counter/flashing? Unless it is leaking I would not necessarily have a problem with any of them.

Well I just repaired one today in Columbus Ohio that was roofed the same way. What I found out was they dropped the felt to cover roofing nails that were nailed very high and were not galvanized. I think this was their way of getting out of buying stainless steal or hot dipped nails. It has been working for 18 years. I was there to re-flash the chimney. They will have a tough time getting any money from the builder if it was not leaking.

The way your describing install...I would call it crap..i mean defective...

I have been hired as an expert witness in this case. I get paid for every minute I spend on it, even as I type. Homeowner is suing, claming they bought said house with a defective roof. They hired a very respected roofing company to replace roof for $100,000 plus. Now, after the fact they are suing the developer. All I have are pictures of the old roof. Besides the interlay issue 1. used staples instead of nails 2.rubber boots instead of lead. 3.large gap between shakes. 4.no reglet cut for copper counter flashing 5.Standing seam roofing on upper flat roofs instead of single ply made for 1/12 pitch

Wadyatink

We run into similar situations all the time, here in Colorado, (especially in the "mountains")....They typically I&W everything, so proper roofing application proceedures/techniques, are negated so-to-speak.....Every so often, we run accross a shake roof w/o any liner at all!